Shranjevanje izvornih celic (Polna verzija)

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Sunny Morning -> Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 14:00:24)

A ste kaj razmišljale o tej možnosti?
Seveda ne pričakuješ, da bo otrok bolan. Normalno je, da si želiš zdravega otroka, vendar se nikoli ne ve. Res, da je zadeva kar draga, ampak če pomisliš, da lahko v prihodnosti rešiš življenje svojega otroka. Kakšna so vaša razmišljanja? Ali je mogoče katera to že storila?




Anonimen -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 14:03:39)

Na MON je bila obsežna debata glede tega; http://med.over.net/forum5/read.php?117,2317201,4051459#msg-4051459

Upam, da ti bo kaj v pomoč.

Lp, jjasna




Majchi -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 14:17:33)

Midva s fantom sva se odločila za shranjevanje izvornih celic in sva ravno danes plačala nekaj avansa. Sicer je moj fant bolj skeptičen glede tega, medtem ko se mene da precej prej naštimat za te fore [image]http://www.ringaraja.net/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif[/image].

Kaj jaz vem. Moje mnenje je takšno, da stvari, ki bodo v prihodnosti aktualne, so v sedanjosti vedno malo zavite v meglo oz. prinašajo določen riziko. Sem pa za mnenje vprašala tudi svojega G, ki pravi, da je sigurno nekaj na tem. To naj bi bila nova znanstvena disciplina. Pravi, da določene presaditve teh celic znajo opraviti že tudi v Lj. kliničnem centru.
Jaz mislilm, da če znajo danes ozdraviti že 50 različnih bolezni na ta način, da bo ta številka čez 20 let precej višja, saj znanost napreduje z bliskovito hitrostjo.
Je pa res tudi to, da Slovenija tudi približno še nima urejene zakonodaje na tem področju. Tudi v Evropi obstajajo samo smernice.

Mi smo reskirali. Srčno upam, da nam nikdar ne bo treba uporabit teh celic in da bo na koncu to stran vržen denar. Po 20ih letih se bo pa hči sama odločila, ali želi podaljšati hrambo ali ne. Možnost bo pa vsekakor imela.




skuštrana -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 14:18:33)

Midva jih bova najverjetneje shranila. Pri prvorojenki jih nisem, sploh nisem vedela za to možnost, sedaj pa se sicer se odločam, ampak nekako bolj za ja kot ne. 




Majchi -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 14:22:32)

Aja, še nekaj linkov, ki sem jih našla v času odločanja:

http://www.delo.si/index.php?sv_path=41,396,201618
http://www.kvarkadabra.net/article.php/izvorne-celice
http://www.solazazivljenje.si/novice/kako_do_izvornih_celic.html

Na nekaterih linkih pa žal članki niso več na voljo [image]http://www.ringaraja.net/forum/smileys/smiley13.gif[/image] .




Anonimen -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 14:37:31)

Mišljenje Pušenjaka na MON:

http://med.over.net/forum5/read.php?19,4073646,4074898#msg-4074898




nana 27 -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 15:12:08)

Tole pa sem našla jaz: Re: izvorne celic
Napisal: Stanko Puđenjak
Datum: 06.04.2007 17:00


Spoštovani,

včasih se vprašanje izmuzne urejevalniku in se kar "samo objavi" mimo mene....:-)
No, na kratko menim, da je za zdaj shranjevanje matičnih celic iz popkovne krvi še precej "tvegana naložba", ker ima že zelo malo konkretne uporabne vrednosti, res pa je, da se obetajo številne nove, za katere pa nihče ne more jamčiti. Zlasti sta dva pomembna problema, ki še nista razjasnjena:
- kako dolgo lahko zamrznjene celice ostanejo vitalne oziroma uporabne
- če je teh celic iz popkovnice dovolj tudi za odraslega človeka ali samo za otroka
Glavno prednost ta oblika "naložbe" predstavlja osebam, ki imajo v druţini povečano pojavnost rakavih obolenj krvotvornih organov, za ostale je to čista loterija, saj je verjetnsot da naključno osebo doleti takšno obolenje v otroštvu manj kot 1:5000.
 
Pa še:
 


Umbilical Cord Blood Stem Cell TechnologySoren Müller Bested, CordLife, Singapore

Chris - What's the motivation behind banking umbilical cord stem cells?
Soren - We learnt a few decades back that developing babies do not have any bone marrow, and that all of the stem cells that are responsible for producing bone marrow later in life are found circulating in the blood. So the blood of a new born baby has about ten times the concentration of stem cells that you find in the bone marrow. The idea is that if we can collect umbilical cord blood (after the baby is born), we can harvest the stem cells in the blood and use them as a replacement for bone marrow in a transplant situation. The blood is collected after the baby is born from an umbilical cord that would otherwise be thrown away. We cryogenically preserve the cells at minus 196 degrees Celsius under liquid nitrogen. Evidence suggests that if stored in this way, the stem cells should last indefinitely, although this is hard to prove. Researchers have shown, however, that, when stored in this way, the cells are just as viable after 15-20 years as the day they were first collected.
Chris - Say I have a condition that stem cells can treat. How would you treat me with your stored stem cells?
Soren - We would treat you in a similar way to how we treat a patient with bone marrow stem cells. You would undergo a course of chemotherapy to get rid of the diseased bone marrow in your body. We would then take out the umbilical cord cells that were stored earlier in life and infuse the cells into a vein. The cells circulate in the bloodstream for a short while before they home in on the bone marrow cavity, settle, and begin to produce a new bone marrow. This is exactly the same as in a new born baby. It also means that if you had cells from a female umbilical cord, you would have a female bone marrow for the rest of your life.
Huseyin - People are making huge claims about umbilical cord stem cells. It sounds like Cord Life is a big business and is sincere in what it is doing. What's your current thinking that we could take umbilical cord stem cells and make any tissue you like in the body?
Soren - I think it has a higher potential than we ascribe to it today. However, I don't think cord blood cells will make everything. We restrict ourselves to heart disease and bone marrow disease at the moment.
Chris - One of the constraints is that you only get a small number of stem cells from each umbilical cord. It's not enough to cure an adult. What technology do you have to help solve that problem?
Soren - We realise that this is a problem. We are currently about to start clinical trials on trying to grow umbilical cord stem cells. We are using what is known as the Cytomatrix technology. This technology was originally developed by NASA and is a material with a very large surface area to volume ratio. It was being used in space shuttle catalytic converters. When we looked at the material, we realised that the matrix looked very much like human bone marrow. The thinking was that if we could put the cells in an environment like they are used to, we might be able to expand the cells. We found that it worked. Laboratory and animal tests have been done and we are now at the point where we about to enter human clinical trials. We hope the clinical trails will finish in the next two years, so it will probably be about three to five years before this will become a standard therapy.


pa tole:

Stem cell bank may hold cures of the future

By Roger Highfield, Science Editor

Last Updated: 12:35am GMT 04/02/2007
  • Video: Virgin stem cell bank
    A bank to store stem cells from newborn babies was launched yesterday by Sir Richard Branson.

    Flexible cells from umbilical cord blood can already provide life-saving transplant treatments for blood cancers and immune disorders.
    The thinking behind the Virgin Health Bank is that developments in tissue regeneration technology in the next decade may also allow the use of an individual's stored cord blood stem cells to grow replacement cells and tissues if and when they are needed.
    Sir Richard's scheme is a radical venture for his business empire. It will provide a dual private/public service from its own freezers set up at an existing bank run by the company BioVault in Plymouth.
    Each stored sample will be divided and placed in two banks, one (20 per cent of the blood) for the child's personal use, which is unlikely to be used in the short term, and the remaining 80 per cent used in a public bank to make donated cells freely available to anyone who needs them.



    Parents will be asked to pay Ł1,500 to collect their child's umbilical cord blood stem cells, which is competitive with the cost of the handful of existing private cord banks. In return they will have a store of cord stem cells as an insurance policy that might benefit their child in the future.
    What is unique is that other patients worldwide will also have access to banked, tissue-matched stem cells. The only charge will be for transport, since it is illegal to charge for human tissue.
    "Virgin Health Bank has an important role to play in making more of these special cells available," said Sir Richard.
    "We all know that the NHS has limited funds and can only do so much – in fact I was visited by a senior professor who is very involved in the NHS collection service and it was clear that the main problem is the lack of stem cells." He added that he wants to launch similar banks worldwide.
    The scheme is funded by around Ł10 million from Merlin Biosciences, the venture capital fund set up by Sir Chris Evans, the scientist/entrepreneur who sits on the board of Virgin Health Bank.
    The Virgin brand is considered to be worth the same, so half the profits will go to Virgin. Sir Richard said he would give his profits to charities such as the Anthony Nolan Trust involved in treating leukaemia. But the chief executive officer of the bank, Andrew Davis, emphasised:"This is a business. We are not saying we are a charity."

  • Ian Gibson MP, the former chairman of the Commons science and technology committee, gave a qualified welcome. "It sounds really good but when you get into the details there are some murky corners that need to be divulged," he said.
    Success or failure may lie in the hands of NHS managers.
    Prof Nicholas Fisk, of Imperial College London, said collecting cord blood was "a real pain", being an unwelcome distraction in caesareans and other complex births, given that collection methods vary among cord blood companies.
    To date, there has been "little scientific validity" for private banking. More than half of maternity units refuse to bank blood. Virgin should provide additional staffing to ensure success, he added.
    Prof Fisk also warned that in a child's early years their own stem cells are unlikely to help them if they have a condition such as leukaemia, unlike healthy donated cells. The chance of using cord blood for your own baby was "almost nil", he added.
    Where Virgin's plan was unusual was making some of each donation of cord blood available for use by others because, unlike bone marrow, cord stem cells do not have to be a perfect match to take.
    "Public cord banking is a very laudable aim and they are doing it in a clever way by mixing private and public usage," said Prof Fisk. Virgin said it would rely on the 20 per cent of hospitals who have an existing policy of storing cord blood for its supplies.
    A spokesman for the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecology said: "It is imperative that the collection should not in any way compromise the attention of the carers to the delivery, and ideally the sample should be collected by a trained third party."
    Belinda Phipps, the chief executive of the National Childbirth Trust, said: "The evidence does not show benefits for the baby.
    "The method recommended and used by many commercial companies to collect stem cells risks interrupting the birth process."
     
     
    Našla sem zelo dober članek v nemščini: 
    http://www.eltern.de/schwangerschaft_geburt/geburt/nabelschnurblut.html 




  • Seven* -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 15:21:12)

    No, jaz vam povem kot biologinja, smo kar nekaj o tem imeli tudi na faksu..

    Res je, da je zaenkrat se vse bolj v povojih, ampak dela se ful na raziskavah. In jaz bi se sedaj skoraj sigurno odlocila za kaj takega, ze zato, ker je hkrati nekaj malega verjetnosti, da te iste celice uporabijo za kaksnega ozjega sorodnika. Sem skoraj prepricana, da bo zgodba cez 10 let popolnoma drugacna. Poglejte si samo umetno oplojevanje, kam vse je slo v zadnjih 10 letih.

    Moje osebno mnenje je podobno Pusenjaku. Ce si lahko privoscis, sem absolutno ZA.




    majrim -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 15:49:14)

    marsikatera bi to storila(vsaj po pogovorih s kolegicami),a na žalost si vsi tega ne moremo privoščiti[image]http://www.ringaraja.net/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif[/image].....komaj sva zbrala skupaj za umetno,o tem lahko le sanjava[image]http://www.ringaraja.net/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif[/image]...




    Anonimen -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 16:12:46)

    Jaz o tem resno premišljujem,enkrat za prihodnost.[image]http://www.ringaraja.net/forum/smileys/bravo.gif[/image]




    zrak -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 18:04:25)

    Midva sva tudi razmišljala o tem.. koliko pa pride točno stati.. ko sem jaz neki računala je to 1.700 eur.. hranjenje 5 let.. potem pa ponovno vplailo samo za hranjenje za nadaljnjih pet let..
    Me pa zanima ali to res lahko vzdži 40 Ali 0 let, saj se šele takrat pojavijo rakasta obolenja.. prej pa redkost..??
    Sunny koliko sta vidva plačala?

    Hvala




    Majchi -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (18.5.2007 18:38:32)

    Zrak, midva sva se odločila za podjetje Neocelica, ki imajo pogodbo z laboratorijem v Belgiji. Celice se hranijo na dveh lokacijah.

    Cena je pa 1500 eur + ddv, kar potem znaša cca. 1800 eur (mislim, da 1812 eur). Cena vključuje paket, s pomočjo katerega zdravniško osebje v porodnišnici odvzame vzorec, prevoz do Belgije, pregled krvnega vzorca, ločitev celic iz krvi in ugotovitev, ali so celice vitalne. V ceni je potem še hramba za 20 let in brezplačna dostava celic v roku 24 ur v katerokoli bolnišnico po Evropi (torej v primeru, če bi jih potreboval).

    Se pravi, od teh skupno 1800 eur moraš vnaprej (kot neko aro) plačati 250 eur + ddv, kar znaša 300 eur, nato dobiš paket po pošti domov. Preostanek plačaš v roku enega meseca po pregledu celic v Belgiji oz. po prejetju obvestila, da so celice v redu in da so shranjene. Če celice slučajno niso vitalne (baje se tudi to lahko zgodi, vendar redko), ti jasno ni treba plačati razlike. Izgubiš torej 300 eur, kar zadržijo za stroške prevoza in laboratorijskega pregleda. V primeru, da ne plačaš preostanka, celice uničijo, ti pa zopet izgubiš 300 eur.

    Več imaš tudi na spletni strani Neocelice:
    http://www.neocelica.si/index.asp







    Anonimen -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (19.5.2007 1:04:34)

    Rekla bom samo eno. Če je možnost, izkoristite, ker nikoli ne veš kaj te doleti.
    Moja kolegica ima limfnega raka. Ker se po vseh kemoterapijah in obsevanjih ni pokazalo izboljšanje, jo zdaj čaka zadnja možnost. Gre v komoro za 3 tedne, kjer ji bodo odstranili hrbtenjačo, vanjo pa vsadili matične celice. To bo zelo napeto za celo familijo, vendar je zadnja šansa.
    Če je možnost, IZKORISTITE, saj veste, da je tega vsakič več.




    zrak -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (19.5.2007 10:44:24)

    Jaz imam prospekt od cellavie in cena je taka:
    škatlica  63,
    predplačilo 450
    naknadno  1300
    skldiščenje za 5 let  170

    skupaj  1983 eur...

    sem pa brala, da ne vedo koliko časa se to lahko hrani in če vzamemo, da je otrok zelo redko bolan za levkemijo, ampak navadno zbolijo starejši ljudje... te celice še ne vedo če se lahko hranijo 40 , 50 in še več let... to je še neznanka.. poleg tega tudi verjetno ne zadostujejo za zdravljenje zdravega človeka..
    Pa še to vprašanje se mi zastavi: v prospektu piše ČIM MLAJŠE IZVORNE CELICE TEM VITALNEJŠE IN ČISTEJE..  to je res... se pravi tudi otroci imajo še vedno dokaj čiste celice, kar pomeni, da če bi zbolel, lahko iz njegove krvi pridobijo čiste celice, starejši ko si pa jih ne morejo... Danes to delajo tudi že odraslemu človeku.. preko krvi poskušajo pridobiti izvorne celice, vendar je zelo težko, ker so precej stare, kar pa pomeni, da pri otroku so še dokaj čiste...

    VSA TA ZADEVA JE KOMAJ V ZAČETKU IN ZATO JE ŠE PREMALO INFO....zakaj noben zdravnik, ginekolog... ti ne reče to je super zadeva.. plačajte.., ker niti oni ne vedo in prepustijo, da si sam prebereš in se odločiš....nočejo podati svojega mnenja, ker vedo da ni še nič sigurno.. seveda čez par let bo pa zadeva čisto drugačna..., kot vse do zdaj..

    Jaz sem si včeraj veliko prebrala in sva se odločila, da v to zadevo ne bova šla, čeprav sva bila že skoraj prepričana... nekdo je lepo napisal , da otrok zboli za levkemijo (katero zdravijo s temi celicami) je možnost 1:5000... ta možnost je še manjša kot ta da ostamo invalidi pri EA , kjer je možnost 1:2000

    to je izrecno moje mnenje, vsaka pa naj se odloči pri sebi in seveda po finančnih zmogljivosti...


    lp




    ~NINA~ -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (19.5.2007 19:07:15)

    Na hitro še moje mnenje. Tudi midva sva se odločila, da bova dala shranit izvorne celice in sicer pri Neocelici. Imava doma že škatljo in čaka, da gremo v Rim [image]http://www.ringaraja.net/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif[/image] Mislim, da je to pametna stvar, čeprav upam, da je ne bomo potrebovali. Toliko enega denarja se vrže stran za brez veze in mi za to res ni žal razkirat 1800 EUR. To daš shranit, če si lahko privoščiš in če razmišljaš mogoče v naprej.

    Sama sva se za to odločila tudi na podlagi tega, da imava v bloku punčko, ki je pri 2 letih zbolela za levkemijo. Komaj komaj so našli darovalko iz Nemčje, šlo pa je za zadnje minutke in hvala bogu je sedaj s to punčko vse ok. So njeni starši rekli, če bi že takrat bila ta možnost hrambe izvornih celic, da bi ji to zelo pomagalo in ne bi pripeljalo do vsega tega, kar so prestali oni.

    Kaj pa vem, odločitev je od vsakega posameznika, se mi zdi pa, da je zelo pametna...

    Lp
    Nina




    Sunny Morning -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (19.5.2007 19:26:14)

    IZVIRNO SPOROČILO: zrak
    Sunny koliko sta vidva plačala?

    Midva se še nisva odločila. Sem šele na začetku nosečnosti in je za enkrat to še razmišljanje. Če se bova odločila bo to najbrž pri podjetju Neocelica, ki se mi zdi, da ima trenutno najbolj ugodno ponudbo. Všeč mi je, da plačaš teh 1800€ in si zagotovil hrambo za 20 let.
    Se pa strinjam, da veliko več denarja vržemo stran za kakšne res brez vezne stvari. Jaz upam, da bo, v primeru, da se odločiva, to tudi ena od teh mnogih brez veznih stvari. Jaz sem bolj ziheraš in bom veliko bolj mirna, če bom to naredila. Posvetovala se bom še z mojo g, me zanima njeno mnenje.




    Majchi -> RE: Shranjevanje izvornih celic (19.5.2007 21:00:20)

    Aja, mogoče še tale informacija.
    Aprila enkrat je bilo o izvornih celicah govora tudi v poročilih (24 ur) in takrat so povedali, da so izvorne celice v zadnjem mesecu odvzeli 8 novorojenčkom, podatek je bil za Lj. porodnišnico.
    Pred nekaj dnevi pa sem govorila po telefonu s predstavnico Neocelice in ko sem jo vprašala, koliko ljudi se je do sedaj odločilo, mi je povedala, da imajo že preko 40 strank.
    Torej iz 8 na 40 v enem mesecu. Čisto za info.




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